Quote : Science may not have the answer to everything, and may never have (There are lots of unanswered questions still, and not just in biology). But the use of a Designer to explain every yet-unclear phenomenon in the natural world is tantamount to saying "stop exploring and researching and hypothesing, since we know that God/Designer/Spaghetti Monster is the answer to everything". Now, that would be a tragedy indeed.
My reply : Personally I think the above is an over-generalisation. I think that the belief in a Creator does not necessarily cause a believer to "stop exploring and researching and hypothesing, since we know that God/Designer/Spaghetti Monster is the answer to everything". Though historically we have witnessed many religious fundamentalists do so, many scientists both past and present believe that religion and science are compatible. Modern science in fact advanced so rapidly because its brilliant minds believed that a rationally orderly God created an orderly universe which could be known through careful scientific study.
Quote : Creationists and the Intelligent Design (ID) camp have it as their goal to falsely spread (by repeating ad infinitum) the notion that evolution is ‘just’ a theory (in their lingo, a mere hypothesis), with the aim of lobbying for equal time to be allocated to their pet design and theistic ideas in biology classes
My reply : Unlike the US, I think (and I hope I am correct) that as far as Singapore is concerned there is no fundamentalist Christian "right" that is pushing for evolution to be taught in science or geography class. I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that it should either, except for beowolf but only (as far as I can see) for the purpose of making a point. I sense that there is a lot of hostility and emotional diatribe against ID-iots (since we juveniles insist on calling each other names I shall join in the fun) because of this misapprehension.
Quote : [If the alternatives to evolution are taught in science class t]hen scientific alternatives to God should be included in Church sermons too …
My reply : Firstly, I believe that when evolution is taught, the approach should not be to present it as an absolute fact, but as a work in progress which is the best way scientist are able to explain our universe. Students should be informed that there are gaps in our understanding (http://www.musings.per.sg/2005/08/200) and that over time there is the hope that scientists will understand it better. This is not a call to teach that the theory of evolution is incorrect or a backdoor by which ID may be taught as an alternative. I think, rather, it gives the student a fair view of where science stands right now so that he can decide if the claims of ID-iots are credible at all (now everyone say "of course not !").
Secondly, church sessions are not a classes about how God created the world. If it were than I would agree that the scientific alternatives to God should be taught at every church service. But you may wish to note that many churches probably have special classes on creation and evolution once in a while, and that at such classes "scientific alternatives" to God are presented. Of course, the Christians are probably also taught that are no real "scientific alternatives" to God. Nonetheless, an inquiring mind who finds what is presented incredible is free to renounce his beliefs - people are not killed for leaving the church (well, I hope not anymore, and certainly at least not in Singapore).
Quote : Seriously, what is it about religous alternatives to your christian God? What about the hindu gods, buddha, Allah, Zeus, Lao Tse, Thor, and to some (Satan)…? The world is not only Christians only.
My reply : Er … I think this thread is about fundamentalist Christian pro-IDs vs evolutionists. So talking about alternatives to the Christian God is out of topic. No need to take offense … Of course, if you wish, you can join in the fun by posing as a fundamentalist Zeus-worship pro-ID who takes offense at the fact that everyone is ignoring Zeus as a possible contender for creator god.
Quote : I think the point is this: Science is religion-neutral. If some christians start wanting ID to be taught, then it will offen a whole lot of people from other religion, or people from other religions will start wanting their version of the ‘how life is created’ taught. Maybe next time we’ll see:
Lesson 1: Evolution - Darwin’s version
Lesson 2: Intelligent Design - Or how God made us all
Lesson 3: Creating Man from mud - Or how Nu Wa made us Taoists
Lesson 4: Alien Abduction and anal probing - Or how life originated from Aliens.
My reply : Religion is a belief system. And taken to extremes, science can be as comprehensive a belief system as well. Science may be religion-neutral in the sense that religion generally need not be brought into the picture when science is discussed, but it is certainly not belief system-neutral. As such, I can see why some religious people take offense when science as a belief system is forced onto them.
As for Christians wanting ID to be taught in schools, as I’ve said before, this isn’t what the majority of Singaporean Christians are asking for and even if Christians did, it wouldn’t happen. Can we stop bringing up this non-issue then, or take it a forum on US politics ?